Harry Whitney Fri Feb 16, 2007

I wouldn't leave a couple of riders out on the trail with their worried horses, even though they were saying 'don't wait for me, go on', etc. but I felt their horses weren't ready for that, might be supported by my horse hanging out near by. Then later in the ride I miss it that my horse needs that support! Harry was near me at the back of the trail -- I didn't totally leave my horse hanging but I missed taking care of his worry in a way that was effective right then. I was stuck on what worked the day before with another horse.

Why didn't Harry bring up more options earlier on, or even bring up the conversation, ask the question? How does one teach options? What was going on with Harry that he saw but didn't direct? Yet it worried him a lot? I asked him about this and he said it wasn't the time. Often he finds a rider can take in the new information later on when the heat of the moment has passed. Then the rider can integrate the feedback and new ideas and try them out later on. This became true later in the day when I rode Cajun again and had more options in my toolbox, and things went well.

PV asked about just going out there and riding (like yesterday in the desert) versus working in the ring a lot. Harry responded: you'll probably have a more versatile horse if you get it going out there rather than in the ring.

Me: my memory of how to screw up a horse is greater than my memory of options how to help a horse.

You can't see the problem or fix it if you're in a panic yourself.

The best you can give may not be the best he needs.

Cajun is opening up, has a better look in his eye, is waking up.

It can be too much to keep track of what otherse are doing when adrenaline comes up and focus gets narrow on what the horse is doing.

Leap frog game can be effective. Also have someone trot right through the middle of the herd and out the other side, then turn and go back through again.

But it's harder to get a horse feeling good right here, and Harry focusses more on that than on other stuff.

If you get a 10% change every time you go out for a ride, pretty soon you've got a lot going for you.

People don't work on these things till they need them, but there are so many opportunities to work on them.

Reins: Use your reins enough to get a change, then release them.

It'll look different from horse to horse. Some horses you have to stay close to, but you can be fanning the flames because they think you're trying to put a lid on it instead of embrace it.

You know the squirt forward is going to come but you gotta sit there as if you expect him to walk off. Get a change, release him. Get a change, release him.

More talk about getting it good in a more quiet setting before you expect it to work out on the trail or with a larger group or whatever.

In a group when one horse is bothered, another horse might be on edge and it'll get bigger being affected by the bothered one.

Tempted to let her go but don't just let her take over -- direct her, let her trot here and there, away from the group and back again, for example; pretty soon they'll think why go through all this?

PV firmer and more confident than before.

Do not lean into turns even when horse leans.

Harry gets frustrated because he expects people to process information like he does. He'd get frustrated if he taught weekly lessons. Working with us, you gotta say it over and over and over again. Not seeing us often so enough to begin to think we're not trying. We're a lot like a horse -- if we weren't trying we wouldn't be here. Out on the road at 'normal clinics', some are seeking a fix, not seeking help.

SH's question about how she handled Belle at the end of the ride, reflecting her awareness of how she rides her Tbred nutcases.

Riding closer to the line -- the line between doing too little and not getting a change, and doing too much and horse blowing out.

Discussion of how overly confident horses affect other horses (referring to Cajun's impact on other horses on the trail ride -- he is a very confident horse).

Me: I may not be right but I'm sure.

Ace in round pen: worry in transitions, depends on where it's coming from. If it's lack of willingness to go out of fear versus if it's overreacting and fleeing. Ace understands to come to SH on the fence. When SH noticed his thoughts coming to her there, she said thank you. Without fence or pedastal, it's different. Those things make it very clear to the horse when they are getting close to what we're asking. Out on the desert trail, we're not that clear.

When you pick up the reins to stop, it means "stop", not "maybe stop".

I can't get you there, but I want to give you the feel of what it is you can get.

It's better to quit on a bad note than to quit on a tragic note.

Harry Whitney Thu Feb 15, 2007

[I've put Harry's comments that I took down word for word in bold italics. There are more of his words here, but when I wasn't 100% certain what he said word for word, I did not quote him as such.]

The more I understand and try to deal with the horse's insides, the more I use just stopping them and am able to get a change.

Able to get it done without a lot of circling, etc. now.

What's the difference? Having a conversation versus trying to force something.

What all is going on when you ask a horse to stop and wait? ... offering him a place to stand still by not allowing him to be anyplace else.

This is not going to work, this is not going to work, etc. until horse finds the quiet place inside.

A lot of times you have to allow their feet to move so all that will dissapate.

Asking them to get centered -- not just a physical centered.

Harry referred to what SH said in the playground: The difference in what she was doing and what Harry was doing -- she was trying to stifle what the horse was feeling and Harry was embracing it: 'you need to do something? Let's go, let's do it; I'll help you jump and twist and back up.' But I had him close enough so it didn't really feel good to the horse. Pretty soon he tried to feel different because it didn't work out to feel the way he did.

SH said: history of combativeness so she'll now say "no, try something else", direct that energy; she has clarity about her ability to help him out if she helps him in to a fit, rather than stifling that fit.

With people we say, they have to hit rock bottom to make a change. To them it's not bad enough to want to make a change. Harry is helping the horse hit rock bottom, adding to how bad he's feeling to help him make a change.

Redirecting: there's a time to redirect it and it takes care of the bad feeling. There's a time when you redirect and the horse goes in your direction but is just waiting to follow their own throughts, hasn't changed his thoughts. You gotta do something about the bad feeling first.

Adrenaline and cortisol -- thinking and accessing solutions versus being frozen, etc.

To get a horse just to let go and go somewhere is an important thing that needs to be available, but does that mean he's feeling OK inside? Or maybe he thinks he'll be feeling better up there someplace, going in 'hopeful mode'?

SH's story of the first time horse was freed up and going rather than beating him to go fast (former race horse).

Relaxed horse, seeing the thought forward -- their mind is sucking them forward. What that feels like is when you're riding the horse following a tarp or something.

Sometimes you ask a horse to look and they turn their head but don't really look out there.

I would like to think each of you would get to the point of being intolerant.

If the horse is taking over, it'd be troubling to the horse if I made an adjustment. Horse carrying me can sort out feeling like taking over except he's mentally with me when he's carrying me and it won't trouble him when I make an adjustment.

A horse can't be truly forward in his thought and be too troubled inside.

If they're not doing their best, they're not feeling their best. And what's their best? It's their thought taking their feet out there.

Harry: I'm in the awareness business. Get out there and find it. If you don't know it exists, you won't look for it.

From time with Tom Dorrance: seeing how to get from where I was to where I wanted to be a few different ways.

SH/Legs, saddle. Most people think it's about the saddle but it's not, it's about the anxiety he brought to that moment. Harry's table story. People get so infatuated with the tables in life, but it's not about the table.

SH round pen: If horse knows what you want, be more insistent. If horse is figuring out what you want, be more persistent.

(My decision to work Rusty on lead first then at liberty, to help him understand what I want, so I can communicate more clearly what I want and improve his responsiveness. If I stay thinking about "help him be responsive", it doesn't matter what I do to improve that, he'll feel better.

SH/Legs/flag -- persistent when she could've been insistent. A little threatening with flag instead of with a promise you will do it. Nagging = repeat something repeatedly without getting a change.

Harry might have done enough so horse reacted and knew he meant it then deal with reducing the upset afterward. Maybe SH was avoiding troubling the horse.

These horses are really good at teaching us humans to wait.

Ray Hunt said 'Set it up and wait' when a horse doesn't understand. Don't make it happen. There comes a time when there's no waiting.

My question re flag: when to support a horse and when to be insistent that he let go of his worry about it?

(I start to see the value in teaching a horse to change how he's feeling so that is an option you can reach for whenever you need it.)

If horse thinks fleeing is the solution, he says 'fine, go ahead and flee but I'm right here with you so what are you going to do?;' Not driving him, but still there with him.

Not every horse has to flee in action like Ace. SH was going with him while he was exploring his feeling in round pen -- he found out himself that he didn't need to flee, that it wasn't working out for him.

Yesterday Harry took the end of the lead rope and slapped his leg and said 'search for a better spot'. Today no lead rope but still there with him asking him to search for a better spot. Kinda doing the same thing.

Back to my question about flag: Harry said Ace didn't even stop to consider it, just caught it in the corner of his eye and took up directly to his upset place. If he'd looked at it, snorting and quivering, then you might go slow and let him figure it out a bit. But Ace went directly to a very troubled place so SH did something about that -- insistently.

Harry: if you need to have a fit, OK, let's have a fit, go ahead.

"He spit the dummy" -- Australian phrase for having a fit. Dummy = pacifier.

Afternoon ride in arena, playground, desert.

Harry re reins and me on Cajun at the end of the ride: either he gives to the reins or they're not there.

Harry Whitney Wed Feb 14, 2007

[I've put Harry's comments that I took down word for word in bold italics. There are more of his words here, but when I wasn't 100% certain what he said word for word, I did not quote him as such.]

(Phone call with RNB: 8" of snow and 2 feet due!)

Self preservation does not equal self defense.

If you know you can help him from the ground better than from the saddle, then get down and help him from the ground then get back on and see how it's going.

Cajun -- why leave him feeling stuck/braced/tight when you could help him change -- talking about when to help him with better response to reins, legs, etc.

When I ask more and trouble comes up, is it me addding trouble or not?

Stop evaluating each move the horse did and focus on now, what to do to help the horse feel good right now.

I'm so interested in getting my horse to feel better, I don't have time to think about how I'm feeling.

Regardless of the size of the horse's expression, it reflects that the horse is feeling bad and that needs to be dealt with. Not just if horse is running you over or rearing up. Help the horse feel better when those little things show up.

PV asked: how did Harry come to believe that a horse feels better when they give 100%? Rode enough horses that were stiff, rigid, and unresponsive that wanted to get rid of you... and sat on some horses that are pretty responsive... there's a connection between horses that are dragging on you -- it didn't feel good to you, it didn't feel good to him. Why would a horse do something that doesn't feel good? Nobody has shown him anything better.

When they're doing their best = how they would be when no human is there or close to that.

When a horse is not responsive, he can't feel right.

How can you speed up the process of searching through options and coming up with one that works and is his choice? (Example: horse and trailer in round pen.)

Sometimes you make him do it so next time it might be one of his options to choose from. Whereas before, going in the trailer for example wasn't even an option to the horse.

We are riding insecure horses. Insecurity at times comes from lack of natural selection. Sometimes horses gain security from environment and predictability so some insecure bred horses are upset by changes in environment like when going trail riding, so it bothers them rather than a mustang for example who would have confidence in a changing environment.

Once a horse knows the good feeling, then you can get intolerant when the good feeling is missing, insistent about regaining the good feeling.

Really look at all the spots you can get good at home, then start building from there. Like go 1/4 mile then repeat until horse is feeling good every step of the way. Then extend what you're doing.

Like for a kid who is antsy and fussing for 3 hours in school, then sits focussed for 1/2 hour movie... If it's of enough interest, has enough meaning, it's amazing how much a horse can focus, even a young horse.

When Harry was growing up: When a teacher is in the classroom, class is in session. There doesn't have to be a bunch of foolishness but recess can be lively even inside when it's 30 below outside.

Harry didn't force Ace but: understand the process, limit the options, set it up so they are making choices.

It's not about physical change. The horse knows if we're asking for emotional change not just physical change.

SH/Legs round pen: playful energy in Legs. I asked Harry if his approach to horse feeling playful around him was the teacher in the classroom deal? He nodded his head.

Maybe be more insistent about hunting for the good spot emotionally -- not so important to keep him mentally with her though, maybe let him search for something, like what she's asking, but not if he's not OK inside.

The better you can get it working under ideal circumstances, the better it will go when it's not ideal.

Saddling Legs: it's not about him looking around at Harry or the saddle, it's about the ill feeling he had.

It's not about showing him he shouldn't bite, it was about asking him to change how he was feeling. A fine line between the two.

Harry with Thor, cracking the whip -- not to get horse used to it, but to get a better response to it.

If I can get a change in his response to something he's afraid of, I know he'll respond better to something else he's afraid of. Not necessarily for him to feel OK about it, but to have a better response.

Keep pressure up when he turns to leave, keep him searching for a better spot -- don't let him just escape. Later it'll help him to know that when he's worried, he can look for a better spot.

Training mounted police -- they don't care how the horse responds as long as he doesn't respond -- getting a horse used to thing. Not what Harry is doing.

Horse is cranky about responding, not about doing something.

PV experimenting with more clarity and responsiveness and upping her energy. Horse knows what she wants but he's not sure he really has to. Clearing up his williingness to go on and go forward cleared up his pushing in on her.

Round pen and ride in PM on Belle/Marge. Not fully sound but responsive. Question: does Marge settle when brought to a stop because Harry has done it with her a lot before and she knows how to change how she's feeling through coming to a stop? Yes!

I got to feel Marge ready to start with me; and felt what it is when she's left me at a walk, 'surging' like SH spoke of; likewise, feel her 100% with me at the walk.

Nice complement from PV, that I have a nice way with horses -- they all seem to respond well to me, that I did a good job with Belle out at the playground.